Hello All, we are going to have an AMA Session on Monday 25th of January at 17.00 UTC.
Hi Free Ton community, after the AMA conducted I am uploading here down below the break down of the costs (Integration and Marketing)
Feel free to text me at any time
На сколько критично я отношусь к разным партнёрствам многие в курсе .
Но тут даже сказать нечего . Партнёрство хорошее … но ,
Первое : сумма запрошенных токенов за интеграцию завышена раз этак в десять .
Второе : если партнёрство будет принято то выделенные средства нужно предоставлять с локом не менее двух(!) лет
Привет, вы смотрели AMA, которую мы проводили с TON?
Если да, то вы поймете, что запрошенное количество токенов является разумным. Потенциал TON очень высок, но так как мы обрабатываем карты Visa и Mastercard, чем выше оборот - тем выше риск возвратных платежей (чарджбеки).
Регулярные биржи, на которых был зарегистрирован TON, не несут такого риска. , Если вы поймете всё, что стоит за предложенной нами стоимостью, вы поймете, что это обоснованная сумма. Это не случайное число, оно фактически рассчитано на основе нашего 7-летнего опыта обработки карт Visa и Mastercard для крупных партнеров.
Я полностью уважаю вашу точку зрения, но если вы примете во внимание все факты, то поймете, что она никоим образом не преувеличена.
Спаисбо, Мы действительно надеемся на долгосрочное успешное партнерство.
Hi, have you watched the AMA we did with TON?
If you did, you will understand that the amount of tokens requested is reasonable. The potential of TON is very high, and as we are processing Visa&Mastercard. The higher the turnover = the higher the risk of chargebacks.
Regular exchanges in which TON has been listed do not incur any of such risk. So if you understand what is actually behind the cost that we proposed you will understand that it is a fair amount. This is not a random number, it is actually calculated based on our 7-year experience in processing Visa&Mastercard for big partners.
I completely respect your view, but if you take all the facts into account you will realize that it is not exaggerated in any way.
Cheers mate, We really look forward for a long-term successful partnership.
Sorry, I thought you have some relationship to India)
Free TON will not pay for your marketing or anything else of the sort. Please remove those asks.
Integration? To an extent. We can cover off-chain integration costs. 300K TONs? Sorry. No. Keep it under 100K please. It does not cost that much. Please see here Free TON Collaboration Guide for a guide. Please provide the number of engineers needed and manhours, and the community will verify if those numbers are respectable. But again, it does not cost more than 100K TONs. Just doesn’t. All of the integration costs I keep see popping up have no justification in the fiat world, and so they do not have it in the on-chain world either. It just doesn’t cost that much, period. We’re not a bank.
On-chain integration can be done by proposing a contest to the Free TON community to handle. No need for those costs to be subsidized through collaboration.
Other than that it’s a good proposal.
Remove anything marketing related. Those are your costs, not the community’s.
Off-chain integration only up front and please keep it under 100K TONs and that is ALL that will be given up front. You are not getting 1M tokens up front. Will never happen! Those days are gone.
On-chain integration through a contest. If not, it isn’t something that should be covered up front under any circumstances. Bring results, get the TONs. All tokens after integration must be based on value brought (KPIs), i.e., on-chain users.
Again, KPI everything. No new batches of tokens will be sent until KPIs are met, discussed in this thread through reports you provide, and then put to a vote each time. Reports must have access to metrics that can be quickly analyzed and confirmed by community members as being accurate.
The rest is fine.
P.S. I am certain that other blockchains didn’t have to pay anything to be integrated. Why us, because we’re young? Taken into consideration and given the above points I think my comment provides more than fair and adequate mutual risk minimization. Hope to see a reworked proposal soon.
I believe that the second point related to marketing is very important for the development of Free TON. We need more partner audience coverage, more engaged new users. It is necessary that serious companies such as indacoin talk about Free TON. We need to use their tools to grow our community.
I think that it is worth doing this with quarterly reports from indacoin. Payment of the next tranches after studying and analyzing the report.
I am sure that the partnership with indacoin will bring more benefits than similar partner offers accepted earlier.
The community should once again pay attention to the possibilities of indacoin.
Hi XLR25T, thank you for your comment!
To answer your points:
1- “Free TON will not pay for your marketing or anything else of the sort” , I think we can both agree this your personal opinion, but others think that PR & Marketing is crucial for the project to succeed. Having just a good product is not always enough, one must know how to promote it. If most of the Free Ton community does not desire to be promoted that is alright for us, we just offered what we know can be helpful.
2- The integration fee is completely reasonable, as I’ve already written in other reply and explained during the AMA session Indacoin is not a crypto exchange like the ones where TON was listed. Indacoin is a fiat-crypto payment gateway . We are taking all the chargeback risk for you.
Look, lets imagine over 5 years we process $15M of TON and the chargeback rate is 0,75% - that is already equal $112’500 that we will lose from chargebacks. And the higher the volume = higher the risk.
Traditional exchanges charge the same or even higher fees and they incur ZERO risk. This integration has already been justified several times, this is not a number out of thin air. This was calculated based on our experience.
3- Lastly, regarding KPI’s - that is completely fine for us when it comes to Marketing & PR results. However, this is not applied for Token integration fee as we need a chargeback reserve from our side.
About your comment “I am certain that other blockchains didn’t have to pay anything to be integrated”, this is completely false. That is not the way we work, the conditions are the same for everybody, even for top-100 coins we have no exceptions.
Finally, thanks for sharing your views. I think its clear that you do not understand how complicated is the Visa&MasterCard processing and chargeback risk. I recommend you doing some research on that direction and would also help you watching the AMA where we already answered all such questions.
@XLR25t Hello colleague, I would like to reconnect with you and explain right away what a CHARGEBACK is, because this is key in order to understand Indacoin’s business and proposal.
CHARGEBACK: is a return of money to a payer of some transaction, especially a credit card transaction. Most commonly the payer is a consumer. The chargeback reverses a money transfer from the consumer’s bank account, line of credit, or credit card. The chargeback is ordered by the bank that issued the consumer’s payment card.In simple words, when a malicious transaction happens with a credit card, the money must be returned to the owner of the card
Let me give you a few key bullet points, on when a chargeback can happen:
-a result of a stolen card, a pure scam, in the crypto space the numbers we have are 50/60% of credit/debit transactions in the crypto world are fraudulent
-a user is scammed to buy something
-volatility, a user buy the token, the price goes down, he can request a chargeback
-the user has 12 months to file in the Chargeback, Indacoin must pay back the chargeback in 24hrs
First of all, I ask you all to keep in mind the definition of Chargeback and I would like to re-explain why Indacoin is a completely different business than other B2C exchanges. First of all, you are looking at our proposal from a Technical point of view, and I totally understand your point, however, at the same time, you are also saying “no need for marketing” this may be because WorldChess will bring to Free Ton a community of 100’000’000 people, okay fair play, but let is look from a Financial point of view, and the Risks that Indacoin will face if FreeTon community will be buying Ton with Visa/Master, in perspective, the amount of Chargeback will be huge, and Indacoin will be responsible for it.
As said above Indacoin is a Fiat to Crypto Payment Gateway, in simple words, we offer a complete payment infrastructure, not only from the technical side but also legal side, with all the certifications and licenses needed and trust me when you involve Visa+MasterCard+Banks this is a huge work and it is complicated to achieve. To process payments with Credit/Debit in the Crypto industry is not an easy task (considering that Crypto is High-Risk business for Visa and MasterCard)
Also, we are Regulated and Approved by the UK Financial Conduct Authority (FCA), meaning that if anything bad happens our business can be stopped.
Now, going back to your points, the Integration is easy and must be cheap, no need for marketing as we are already a well know project with a potential community of 100’000’000 people, please decrease the proposal to 100k Tons, that converted is Euro 30k, our main question is “where is the business for Indacoin?” As far as I see, it can be a huge risk for us, and without much in it for us.
Let me explain how I see it, potentially your community is 100’000’000 (considering WorldChess) if each of them buys USD100 through Indacoin using Visa/Master, the total amount process is 10Billion, if the Chargeback amount is 1%, Indacoin must pay back USD100’000’000 in Chargeback.Bottom line you will have a huge volume and return and Indacoin will disappear, of course this is an extreme case but it can happen.
This is why we created the offer for the amount requested, calculating the Integration costs+marketing+chargebacks+rolling reserves+Kyc/AML procedure. We basically involve the current Finacial system (with all its complex ecosystem and rules) to the crypto world, and the easiest and quickest way to involve retailers/investors is Credit/Debit cards.
I saw other proposals, and I think we have a highly valid product, that will help FreeTon to rank up to 100 CoinMarketCap
@XLR25t We discussed it internally and we agreed to decrease the Total Amount by 20%.
Our request is:
Upfront Fee 800’000 (eight hundred thousands) Crystals
Director of Partnerships at Indacoin
as @ indacoin . com
Indacoin (indacoin.com ) is the pioneer of fiat-to-crypto processing, operating for over 7 years in this space. Its near-perfect anti-fraud payment processing system has already made a huge impact on the crypto industry. Since its foundation, Indacoin has had two missions:
1- Playing an important role in the mass adoption of cryptocurrencies by offering its service to purchase BTC, ETH, and many other cryptos with Visa and MasterCard (debit/credit cards);
2- Guaranteeing secure transactions for our partners and users by stopping fraudulent transactions before it happens.
The company has always been true to its missions and shown high achievements in the development and perfection of its sophisticated API. Approximately 100 different crypto merchants, like Bithumb, OKEX, Changelly, Coinswitch, Waves, LaToken , DSX, TrustWallet, GuardaWallet and others, had been trusting their business to Indacoin by using its payment gateway.
Moreover, Indacoin has its own B2C direction via indacoin.com + wallet + Indacoin mobile app (). With a total of +500k registered users and an average monthly total amount processed on its domain is between $1’000’000-$2’000’000 coming from credit cards, these transactions are usually conducted by the beginners of the industry that in the long-term can become seasoned investors and 100x their initial purchase. Other than initial beginners, Indacoin’s platform is highly appreciated by those traders that want a quick-entry in any crypto-project.
Besides maintaining the leading position in the fraud-prevention technology field, Indacoin also works on giving visibility and building the reputation of its partner companies. The London-based company has a growth hacking department and direct partnerships with some of the biggest media in the world.
Indacoin has successfully organized numerous PR and social media campaigns on its own channels and through its media partners from Europe, Asia, and the rest of the world.
Indacoin does not just list coins, Indacoin makes sure those coins are successful. Some recent examples include:
Bithumb, Changelly, Elrond, Komodo, Coinranking, Nervos Network , among many others
-Changelly and Indacoin celebrate partnership by offering big discounts - Crypto Daily™
Nervos Network AMA+CONTEST
- Обзор Nervos Network - Open source экосистема блокчейнов с открытым исходным кодом - YouTube
- CryptoDaily and Indacoin prepared big prizes for their followers - Crypto Daily™
-CryptoDaily and Indacoin unite to elevate the crypto media ecosystem implementing CRDT token - Crypto Daily™
What INDACOIN proposes:
1) Visa & MasterCard Payment Gateway
Allow Free Ton users to buy Crypto with a bank card instantly:
Debit/Credit card payment Gateway
• Indacoin covers 100 % risk of chargeback
• KYC and AML are already integrated
• 24/7 human support for your users through live chat, e-mail and landline
• 13 FIAT currencies available: GBP, EUR, USD, RUB, CAD, AUD, SEK, CHF, DKK, PLN, CZK, NOK, NZD
More than 3 Billion people in the world own bank cards. This is the way
2) Marketing and PR campaign:
- Tailored PR with the goal of maximising Free Ton awareness and conversion
- Indacoin has an in-house marketing department and acts as a Marketing Consultancy firm. The team is composed by 3 SMM managers and 2 copy-writers
- Long-term campaigns (3 to 12 months) in which Indacoin proposes a very exclusive Media package focusing on CIS region, Europe and Asia mixed with Tier-1, Tier-2, Tier-3 media channels
-The first major goal is about brand awareness with articles that will reach millions of active crypto investors
-Educational Content through Indacoin’s channels to help Indacoin’s community to learn about Free Ton
- Press release on indacoin.com and all Indacoin social media channels
- Market penetration through Crypto Youtube influencers within the Asian and CIS regions (OVER 10 YouTubers)
- Contest on Twitter + Facebook organized by Indacoin, Coinranking, and Free Ton
- AMA session on Indacoin Telegram Channel featuring key people from Free Ton and Indacoin
- Interviews with Indacoin and Free Ton representatives will be posted on our Social media and sent to our registered users via newsletter
- Partnership Costs: Indacoin is requesting 800’000 Crystals
B) MARKETING AND PR:
When technical integration is completed Indacoin will promote and will start increasing Free Ton brand awareness, through activities that will educate its audience
Our request is:
Upfront Fee 800’000 (eight hundred thousands) Crystals
Director of Partnerships at Indacoin
as @ indacoin . com
Trying very, very hard to explain how this works, but it’s just not getting across. The days of up front amounts like this are gone, gone, gone, and gone! We don’t need “brand awareness”. We need on-chain users who will use the token now. We need companies who will bring their DApps. If you have those users, that’s all we’re interested in. Financial transactions are means to remove the token from the network and sell it off. We need people to use the TON inside the network. I’ll say it again. Branding, Youtubers, marketing, etc., are not our costs to bear – they’re yours. These are not the types of use cases Free TON needs now. And with all that said, no 800K anything in advance. No more. Forget it. Please see the collaboration guide and follow it; otherwise, not interested. No sense in repeating myself. I hope most will agree.
Additionally, there is no problem with listing Free TON if that’s what you want to do. Go and list it like you would Bitcoin or anyone else. No reason the community should have to pay for it. Plus reading the analytics that were done by our sub-governance, there isn’t much flattery there. Not an exchange I would prefer at all. That’s just my opinion of course.
In all cases, I do not feel this partnership brings any value nor the liquidity that one would hope for. It’s just a quick way for people to take tokens, convert them to fiat, and in essence drive the price of the TON down. I personally don’t like anything about this proposal. But again, that’s just me.
Please understand, I am only trying to give you advice as someone who keeps my finger on the pulse of the community and what they are interested in. Just trying to help. This forum is just one discussion. An important one, of course! But just that. If you insist on your position then that’s totally fine. That is your right. But I think you shouldn’t keep your hopes up then. That’s all.
I agree with @XLR25t xlr25t. We don’t need you PR and marketing, please remove that part. Let’s concentrate on KPIs.
Если наша система за это платит это не выгодно если они предлагают сотрудничать Тогда добро
I am very sorry that the offer was rejected. I hope that all the members of the jury were informed this weekend about the vote.
They most certainly were!
And I won’t share the bulk of their feedback for sake of professionalism, i.e., in the interest of professionalism, let’s just say they found it less than favorable, as was prognosticated.
@XLR25t I am quite surprised that you guys went to vote, clearly, we said that we will make a new offer without marketing.
After 2 months, an AMA organised by us and a tailor-made offer, we were expecting to go on a vote this week as you Ron said.
In our common group with FreeTon we agreed to discard the marketing.
Please advise, what is next
@XLR25t Ron, I think you do not understand what indacoin does, and maybe this is the friction point, let me explain you the following:
You said: It’s just a quick way for people to take tokens, convert them to fiat, and in essence drive the price of the TON down. I personally don’t like anything about this proposal.
BUT THIS IS NOT THE CASE, THROUGH US YOU SPEND FIAT AND BUY TON TOKEN, WHICH WILL INCREASE THE PRICE! WE ARE A FIAT TO CRYPTO PAYMENT GATEWAY, NOT THE OPPOSITE.
FreeTon community, we heard you and we would like to re-propose our solution without marketing as agreed the past Friday.
For any additional questions please join our FreTon+Indacoin Telegram group: Telegram: Join Group Chat
The proposal looks serious and quite promising. The audience coverage is really quite impressive.
Promising collaboration. Hopefully more people will use it in the future. I have already started and was satisfied. I advise everyone!