Free TON

What Community should do with

I am very interested in TON project as well as free TON. I also acknowledge that setting up and managing a decentralized community is much more difficult than running a centralized one, and that is why I appreciate the main team. Thank you guys. :pray:

But the fact that has become clear to all members of the community, during last 6 months, is that a very centralized and monopolist group / committee or even individual dictates all the important decisions in Free TON to others. For example:

  • It decides which contest proposal will go for voting and which will not.
  • It decide which Partnership proposal is good and which is bad.
  • It decides which sub-governance proposal is appropriate and which is inappropriate
  • And many more.

Please do not say that the solution to these problems is Gov 2.0 because this powerful team audits all the proposals before going to the voting. Whichever one it likes, it sends to the voting and throws out whomever it does not like.

The more painful reality is that they constantly declare that the decision is with the community and they are not the decision maker. Maybe right now, as I write, they are saying the same things to others in other sections of the forum :neutral_face:. Despite my esoteric desire (because of my love for TON :heart:), this is the reality on earth…

I suggest that committee / group or individual quickly changes its routine and respect to the principles of decentralized community. Otherwise, SEC may take this opportunity :smirk:

I wrote only in the hope of “CHANGE”. Please do not make another impression :+1:.

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You could participate in this contest as everyone. Why you didn’t? Again nobody could influence on how SG works. A&S Subgov can only run contests for analysis of efficency retrospectivly.

Do you plan to prepare analysis of efficency of SGs where you were a co-lead?

Can you disclose total amount of rewards you have got?

Yes. That is exactly why Mitja always say that contests is the only way Free TON should distribute tokens - everyone can participate.

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Initial members vote for decisions. In order to make token distribution process open for everyone complex on-chain solution should be developed. You can participate in its development or wait when it will happen. There is nothing else to add to that. Wide community off-chain governance systems are not sustainable. It is worthless to discuss it.

I see a badge with your nickname, so you are a prominent member.
But I don’t understand why you are so praying for the contests - you already wrote to me that the contest is the fairest method of distributing awards. But judging by the video clips presented above and which took first places, a smile appears on my face)
But I think some changes are needed. And people who get on the jury, or become participants in the subgovernance, should feel responsible and understand that for the provision of low-quality (I do not even take into account the cheating approach) services to the community there is a risk of losing their reputation and their place.
And with the approach that exists now, when any elected member (recorded in the blockchain) is untouchable and can do whatever he wants, we are flying into the abyss of losing the reputation of this project.
Blockchain and decentralization give us transparency. This transparency is needed so that you can see where and how the project is moving and take timely measures to achieve the goal.
And if we just look at some strange cases, then why is it necessary at all. With such success, you can take each other’s word.
Or am I just stupid and misunderstand the essence of Free TON

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Everything is wrong with socialism. Socialism only on the pages of books looks like an improved and justly organized society.
In reality, however, any variant of socialism always parasitizes on capitalism. You propose as an example some Scandinavian countries in which allegedly they approached socialism … Ask in whose hands the means of production (capital goods) are in there and who pays for this Scandinavian socialist banquet - and you will understand that there is no socialism there - in the understanding of the classics of socialism. ))

Socialism is a parasite or better to say a cancer in the body of a healthy society of owners and entrepreneurs.

There will be no socialism based on blockchain - this is complete nonsense, human nature cannot be changed, even if 100-150 million people will be killed again for the sake of utopian ideas.

Crypto-anarchic freedom is analogous nonsense, unrealizable nonsense. You can create an ultra-industrial society, you can create a post-industrial society using new digital technologies … But trying to create blockchain-socialism, we will get only a new GULAG - now a digital GULAG.

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I myself really wanted to talk about “eternal”, but this is not relevant to the topic. Let’s not drown in the uselessness of stupid discussions)))

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I see I put my irony so deep, so you wasn’t able to detect it.

If somebody writes we don’t build socialism here, as like as he read it in the white paper or may be in DoD, I understand how far we are from the real decentralisation. That is very authoritarian statement and has nothing to do with decentralisation. And all key persons here repeat that like a mantra as like as they decided it in smaller circle. And what about consensus? What if majority will decide to build socialism here? No matter for what reason. May be they will decide, that meritocracy isn’t good for everyone, especially for older or sick people, which are per se excluded from that party. May be they will decide, that a system in which you do not pay taxes is dangerous for some social layers. Who knows? And we all know, if they will decide in that way, this decision will not pass through to take place in the voting agenda, if initial members don’t like it.

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Everyone can participate in contests if thinks that rewards are fair. Some community members are ready to do something only if they know thier rewards in advance and not take a risk of a jury voting This is their choice.

For sure there should be a feedback loop. Jurors could be remowed by voting. Governance can decide not to transfer new requsted sums by SG members. There is no comlete system at the moment. There is a Subgov which is working on its development right now (DGO SG).

All off-chain cosensus means can be altered. Github removes projects, FB and Twitter block posts (even from USA President). The idea “use a forum to make fair decisions” is not sustainable and not scalable.

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Once givers multisig controlled by initial members will be replaced by an SMV contract where all Ton holders will be able to vote, community can vote to give away all tokens to whatever addresses they wish inclduding one from “socialism support team”.

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Удалено автором. Немного не так понял последнее выражение.

Then we will leave the project. Populism is even more dangerous thing than socialism which is just an example of “popular” ideology.

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I completely agree. Even more. After populism, supposedly socialism begins, which always ends with Bolshevism.
Even if Governance 2.0 is adopted here with ability to vote for everyone who has a wallet with 1 token on the balance, this will not end well. It is a utopia and an illusion that it is possible to build a peer-to-peer self-governing society.

Meritocracy and capitalism have significant flaws, but all other isms are much worse.

SEC (Social Enterprise Club) https://www.socialenterpriseclub.ca/

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@Anesthesia

I can safely say that it took you more time and energy to write this text than the entire ambassador direction being an initial member. You have no idea of the work and effort that has been done.

I still get negative reviews about the wiki “administration”. On two languages. Even though I left all chats and left the wiki completely, people continue to write to me. You create there complete limitlessness.

This post was flagged by the community and is temporarily hidden.

Let me guess… It was the translator who thought that he can get reward above the limit for one person without asking the community - just because he is your friend, wasn’t he?)) And the majority of 13 members (even without my vote) voted for decreasing this limit?) and another translator, who believes he wasn’t added to members because his is not russian, and not because he makes mistakes every time he add contest submissions, tried to get rewards for the same articles twice and uploads translation on Wiki that is 99.85% Yandex translate? lol
Now all significant decisions performs via voting, not via “administration”, because THAT is how decentralised governance works.
I bet you will get even more complaints, when people don’t receive their rewards for google translations and irrelevant articles after jury voting :smiley:

I am so sorry that you are speaking this way about my “mistakes” that are due to my rural connection. I don’t know how you can say that my translation are 99,85% automatic but I know that you cannot judge my italian writing. Mechanic translation may be useful to speed up the job but you need to be a good mother language translator to read and correct all the text. For sure, italian wiki, that wiki by me, is quite good readable and has a high quality language translation because I am italian mother language. I do my work to help FreeTON project to spread into the italian community and if you don’t want to pay me, that’s no problem, I already choose to live with very few money in the countryside. My opinion, like already express to you, is that we need a reference mother language person for each language, that will be responsible for traduction’s quality. I’m always trying to cooperate but, unfortunately, in wiki channels I suffer aggressions and I feel discriminated. Competition is a past time paradigm and I think that if we want to be winners we have to learn cooperate.
I want to say thanks to @michaelshapkin that really is always looking for consensus and, like already I state here, is able to catch the best from each person involved.
I’m not trying to cheat anyone, Anastasia.
Я не пытаюсь обмануть кого-либо, Anastasia

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I mean you can see for yourself:
This is the results of comparing italian article about TON OS with yandex translation from english version of this article.




We checked up 556 non-russian articles and no other article hasn’t more % of machinery translation than your “TON OS” :see_no_evil: This is fantastic! I doublechecked, just in case, but it’s the same)
By the way, everyone can test this: copy the text from english article, paste it to yandex.translate, translate to italian there, paste the result to countwordsfree or petr-panda with the text of italian article. Click compare and see % :smiley_cat:

And two days ago, what was that? Submission 31 with your wallet, pdf of another author (who already sent his submission 4 days ago) and link to your post that you deleted? I mean if it wasn’t you what interest for another author that you will receive reward for his work?

I don’t know if it’s magical mistakes or made on purpose, but this looks extremely suspicious, if not say more…